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Post by Swiftbow on May 9, 2005 11:00:22 GMT -5
Post about the current comic here.
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Post by mattice0777 on Aug 7, 2006 17:21:38 GMT -5
I figured #55 was worth a comment. I have never personally been a big fan of the: Something supernatural and supposedly impossible to deal with which has been around for eons and never bested being suddenly defeated by character X syndrome.
Now, the comic itself was as entertaining as ever, but personally, I have never been a big fan of it when something like that happens.
I mean, with something like the gray waste, which has been around for ages beyond rememberance, it is hard to accept that over all that time of destroying adventurers and gaining a reputation of making it impossible to escape its power of dispair once it grabs hold was not previously beaten when all that was really required to best it was a little tenacity.
It tends to assume that all previous individuals who suffered that fate were weaker of will than the individual who broke its previously flawless record of deadliness.
Anyhow, that is just my take on it.
The difference between that, and, for example, Raistlin taking on Takhisis and winning is that it is easier to swallow when the character is built around the concept. Raistlin was loaded with talent and incredibly motivated, beyond anything that normal individuals can lay claim to. So, when he does something special like that, it just goes over well in my book at least.
Milny reminds me largely of Tas, whom I always considered the Jar Jar Binks of Dragonlance, so... that kind of poisons my opinion of the matter.
To sort of sum up that thought though, I tend to think of those special actions as something that a character should not do unless the reader is already thinking "Wow, that character is unequaled anywhere." IMO the character should prove to be extraordinary before they start accomplishing the extraordinary.
Still, despite the fact that I am not a fan of the premise, it went together pretty well I thought.
I tend to be kind of blunt though, so please don't take this as an insult. It is just opinion.
Just some feedback/constructive criticism if you have interest in it.
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Post by mattice0777 on Aug 7, 2006 17:22:31 GMT -5
I originally posted the above in a PM, for reasons I will explain shortly. Anyway, Swiftbow responded with the following: ----- Well, first off, feel free to post anything you want on the boards in terms of criticism. I don't mind! And if anything, these boards need more traffic I can see your point... I hadn't really thought of it that way, actually. But I do think that this is slightly different. I know it didn't say so in the comic, but the despair the Gray Waste tends to exert is usually a bit slower in the process, and is a factor that our diminutive hero hasn't quite passed yet. This is indicated somewhat by her not ever going completely gray. Also, I am trying to give slight indications that these characters (inept as they are) may have a just a little bit of that mojo they're going to need. After all, the primary villain is a god wielding a giant black hole. That's not something Joe Hero usually has to deal with. As for the last bit, I always liked Tas, lol, though I do despise Jar Jar. So I'm certainly not trying to create a character like that. Tas is another character who actually found himself on the Planes (Baator) and experienced a similar situation, which his own kender tenacity helped him overcome. I kind of figured if any of my characters are chipper enough to not despair easily, it would be Milny. Anyhoo, I do appreciate the comments. Hope this makes you like it a (bit) better! And if you want to post it on the main discussion forum, maybe we could generate some chatter
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Post by mattice0777 on Aug 7, 2006 17:59:29 GMT -5
I feel that I should explain myself somewhat on this one. In the past, I have played in several game groups and the like, and, I suppose the most relevant example is one of my most recent campaigns, an online game.
I am something of a critical individual as my post tends to illustrate, and I have found very few people who take it as intended.
In the campaign I refer to, I found numerous examples, which at least looked very much like the DM showing favoritism to his girlfriends character, as well as a few other things.
As things progressed, my commentary became more direct, more accusatory, and better supported.
One of my biggest issues with the game was the fact that even the most poorly thought out, idiotic plans seemed to work. For example, at one point, her character cast a summon swarm spell at a pair of guards, bringing forth a cloud of bats, which, in a military compound... a military compound complete with watchmen, somehow managed to go unnoticed by the rest of the troops.
Shortly thereafter, some "elite guards" handed over a box containing a powerful magical item to a group of us, who, aside from being in the building and not saying otherwise had no real reason to believe that we should be entrusted.
Indeed, most of our characters were not in uniform and our group included races not normally in the employ of the group in question.
Anyhow, we progressed a bit further, we got into a fight, and my character took a critical hit in the first round of combat, incapacitating, and then shortly thereafter killing him.
With my character dead, I continued writing out my review of the session, which, as previously mentioned and implied, was quite critical.
Anyhow, once it was clear, the DM came up with a line about me "trying to sabotage his game." and I was not allowed to create a new character.
I later learned that he later admitted to doing it just because he was sick of my public commentary.
===
Well, that is the back story of it. Suffice to say, I try to keep my criticism more private nowadays so as to avoid creating so much offense.
Now, not for a moment do I consider Swiftbow or anyone else I meet to be that sort of person. It is just that I have been transformed into something of a pessimist from having dealt with people in the past which inspire such an outlook.
=======================================
Well, I kind of took it from the Vrock's comments that no one comes back.
As I think it over again, I suppose the Vrocks comment might have been in reference to say, giving in completely to the hopelessness and going completely gray.
In any case, well, I guess it comes down to the medium and how you look at the obstacle Milny dealt with. If it is something that even other exceptional adventurers in ages past have all been slain by, then I would have to say it comes off as kind of a big jump, especially for a character which has only been around for a few updates.
If it is simply something beyond the abilities of the average gray waste traveller, then I suppose it is a good first step toward, as you said, indicating that they are a bit better than the average bear.
I suppose it really comes down to the question of whether you think Tas is funny. Tas and Jar Jar really had the same comic relief role and did a lot of it through similar antics.
Though, I definately agree that Tas is much better than Jar Jar. Then again, the dragonlance novels were much better written than the most recent starwars movies.
(I read through your screenplays btw, which are far, far superior to the ones that made it on screen. I particularly liked that when you wrote Yoda, you were not slavish to the predicate first format.)
In any case, I only really found Tas entertaining when he was used as a prop for other characters, such as Raistlin dropping him in a duck pond.
Done, on both accounts.
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Post by Swiftbow on Aug 8, 2006 0:39:30 GMT -5
Thanks, Mattice. I'd just like to add that I am generally very appreciative of any comments, positive or negative. Every one of these episodes usually gets critiqued rather heavily by my dad about 5 minutes after I post it. You all may have noticed episode dialog changing several times for about 20-30 minutes after I first post them... this is due to me fixing the numerous problems he usually finds.
That being said, I have been known to get annoyed by criticism, but usually only the critiquer in question doesn't know what he's talking about, due to not reading something fully or accurately. But Mattice's comments are quite well thought out. Now, the rest of you: what do you all think?
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Post by Jeff on Aug 18, 2006 19:44:00 GMT -5
Hey man, I like your comic! Funny stuff. The Tommies are hilarious. I also like the way you draw the imps.
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Post by mattice0777 on Aug 22, 2006 13:01:39 GMT -5
Me again... unfortunately, once again bearing criticism:
and so forth.
Now, I realize that you are making some massive events and suggesting that "That Crazy Witch" is more than meets the eye, potentially one of the Lady's counterparts but....
Well, the idea of the lady of pain talking, even telepathically just seems... wrong to me.
And really, the last two comics would work just as well... better even(more ominous/mysterious) if there was no dialogue from the lady. Not only that, but it would keep true to the canon Lady of Pain.
Aside from that, I think the last two were great.
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Post by mattice0777 on Sept 4, 2006 14:00:29 GMT -5
Ahh, two new comics.
Well, first off, you have more Lady of Pain dialogue, which, I am not overly fond of, but I needn't go over that again.
Instead, nostalgia has gotten to me, as you have come up with a talking magical gemstone.
In my own planescape campaign, I also had a talking gemstone, which was actually something of a powerful artifact the party got their hands on. Mine contained the soul of a death knight and I had given it all sorts of interesting tricks to it.
It was one of those things that just seemed so great as I designed it and started it into the campaign. The party had to fight their way through a practical army of undead in order to get the thing.
Then...
Much to my dismay, one of the partys fighters just stuffed the thing in his backpack and didn't interact with it at all. Basically, he did everything possible to keep the thing from interacting with him, tempting him with powers, etc.
Now, while this was a smart decision and likely saved him from numerous troubles, it also killed off an idea I was really looking forward to going with. I was kind of even hoping the thing might potentially turn his PC into a future villain in some later campaign.
Unfortunately, not much came of it, and the idea died on the table.
So, I like the idea, and am curious where you are going with it. I am sure it isn't the same sort of thing I had, but still, it should interesting.
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Post by Swiftbow on Sept 20, 2006 0:27:02 GMT -5
Hey man, I'm glad you like the idea! Unlike many of the things in the comic, this one did not stem from any of the campaigns my friends and I have played, but is totally made up. Kind of amusing that we both hit on talking magic glow rocks Fortunately, I have total jurisidiction over my characters, so there wasn't going to be no stuffing this thing into a backpack. Although it was in a backpack for quite awhile. But that's beside the point, lol. As you can probably guess now, one of the powers of this particular amulet is Artifact Transformation. He's got a lot more going on, but that'll all have to wait for more revelation. But I will let on that many people will probably go "Ohhh, of course!" when all is finally explained.
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Post by mattice0777 on Sept 24, 2006 11:03:08 GMT -5
Two new comics.
Well, I haven't got quite as much to say. Once again ran into a feeling of nostalgia from your discussion section where all of the main group was debating what to do next. Oh how I wish it could be skipped over like that in a game like it can be in a comic.
As for the rest, I am not entirely sure what you mean by artifact transformation. I am guessing it is something from 3e, which I know only the basics of.
Anyhow, I am naturally curious to see how it turns out. It seems like the gem may be malevolent after all, yet Milny shows no sign that it is getting to her that I can see. I guess I am predicting something of a frustrated artifact in the future.1909
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Post by Swiftbow on Sept 24, 2006 17:09:51 GMT -5
Artifact transformation is out of the Book of Artifacts, which was a 2nd Ed. book. (not too familiar with 3e here either!) Certain artifacts were possessed with the that ability and/or artifact possession. Artifact possession basically is the power to eventually take control of a person mentally, whereas transformation would alter a person's specific form. Both are likely derived largely from Lord of the Rings, where Gollum for example was both possessed and transformed by the One Ring. But that's what that's about!
By the by, I'm planning the next few installments to be a prologue rather that will eventually be placed before episode 1, just to give the comic a stronger beginning. Sound like a good idea to you?
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Post by mattice0777 on Sept 24, 2006 22:51:21 GMT -5
Indeed. It would be interesting to have a little more backstory. A lot of the characters kind of seemed to pop in out of the blue to me, like the Drow (unless he was introduced in one of those flash comics, which I couldn't view because I don't use flash because I am somewhat paranoid about ActiveX exploits.)
Would be interesting to see what happened to some of the earlier versions of Tommy as well.
Going to have to take a look on Ebay and potentially get myself a copy of the book of artifacts. Sounds interesting, even though I doubt I will get to use many artifacts in a real game.
As previously mentioned, I have loads of beholder info btw. I am happy to share, or, if you prefer, I can just recommend you pick up a copy of the old 2e rules supplement "I Tyrant" which is basically everything you ever wanted to know about beholders and more.
In any case, it sounds like a good idea.
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Post by Swiftbow on Sept 25, 2006 0:20:38 GMT -5
There was really only the one flash comic so far, the second one is a filler that I did for my Star Wars prequel rewrites. Incidentally, it does actually cover some backstory for the second group o' guys, but I'll see if I can churn out a non-flash version for you Might not be until I color it, though... will have to see if I can find some time
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Post by mattice0777 on Sept 25, 2006 10:41:08 GMT -5
No need to worry about it. I have been using the character page for backstory.
Thanks though.
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Post by JadedDM on Sept 28, 2006 3:51:36 GMT -5
I like Milny. Although she acts more like a kender than a halfling. Is she a kender? Or is she just a very hyper halfling?
Anyway, I just have to say, early in the comic when the Clueless says, "Can any of you hideous monsters tell me where the bathroom is?" is priceless. Had me in stiches. I think that's the funniest line in the comic so far. Although I must admit, "NOT ON LIST!" is a close second.
I also am a fan of the Sigil Daily news. Good stuff.
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